January 30, 2013

Gun culture

I am sure that Steve will hate this, but Hunter is right, this is a crazy idea that women need 'scary-looking' guns to defend themselves.  As a friend of mine noted on FB, the sound of a pump shotgun loading a shell might be the best home defense in the world.  Certainly it seems nuts that you HAVE to have a very scary assault weapon to defend your home.  I call bullshit on that.

And I would note that the gun culture (that I differentiate from the responsible and sober gun owners out there) encourages this kind of mindset.  The country is going to hell and you better be ready to shoot someone.  No interest in helping that country not go to hell.  Just buy more guns.

What is more, and I think Smitty has spoken to some of this, the gun culture encourages people to get out there and do stuff with their guns.  I am not talking about the trainers and the sober people.  I am talking about the culture that suggests the Rambo ideal.  Like this guy.  Or another guy I read about who saw a guy pull into his drive way and went out and shot him.

16 comments:

steves said...

I don't hate it, I just find it sad that the best argument against the gun culture is logical leaps and factual errors, but Kos doesn't care about facts, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

The new AWB bans specific guns by name, so the notion of scary features does not apply, as it would ban some 170 specific guns, but I doubt Hunter has actually read the proposed bill, nor does he care.

An assault weapon is a gun capable of fully automatic fire. Words have meaning. The guns that were talking about are not assault weapons, but rifle probably just doesn't sound scary enough.

The gun culture encourages people to go to jail?!? Both of those articles are about things that the gun culture discourages...shooting people that are not a threat. Granted, I don't read everything the gun culture says, but I haven't heard anything other than, "these guys are going to jail."

steves said...

The other stupid thing about the Kos blog post is the obvious disdain the author felt for the woman testifying. I can understand that there are many people that don't want to have a gun for self-defense. That being said, those that are should take that decision very seriously, since we are talking about something that is lethal.

In that regard, people that are looking to buy a gun for this purpose should do the research and get the training. It is clear that Hunter doesn't really know much about this. There is nothing wrong with that, but he should make some effort to figure out why people buy what they buy and the choices they make.

You are right, the shotgun racking thing is BS, IMO. That is the kind of crap that happens in movies. In reality, a shotgun is a shitty choice for most people in terms of self-defense. It has a lot of recoil, is difficult to control, and requires the most training of any system.

Streak said...

Why yes, Steve, because you have expressed such respect for those of us who fear the gun culture. Nicely done. Perhaps you should take your own advice and try to understand us. but as your comments here reflect, you have nothing but disdain for us.

Streak said...

"The gun culture encourages people to go to jail?!? Both of those articles are about things that the gun culture discourages...shooting people that are not a threat. Granted, I don't read everything the gun culture says, but I haven't heard anything other than, "these guys are going to jail.""

Great. I will feel much better about that when some asshole shoots me or someone I love. At least they will be going to jail. Exactly right. I feel much better now.

steves said...

Show me where I have expressed disrespect, other than to disagree with you or point out factual errors.

As for your second comment, all I can say is, "sigh." I still don't see the connection between a gun culture that is generally law abiding and the criminal acts of two people, but if blaming them makes you feel safer, then go ahead.

Streak said...

Actually, you have shown the same derision you accused Hunter of--with him it was for a woman who demanded an assault weapon for home protection. For you, it is my discussion of the gun culture.

Perhaps I have not defined it well enough, I don't know. But you clearly don't get my point. The gun culture I am talking about encourages these irresponsible people to have guns and that they should be ready to use them. I understand that isn't what you do, but you seem to ignore that the NRA makes no distinction between responsible or suitable. And when I mention that some people simply shouldn't have guns, you immediately went to the fact that we can't legislate that and they have the right.

Fine. Fuck it. I don't care. But there are people who should not have guns. I am not even trying to legislate that. But I would like responsible people to stop suggesting that even irresponsible people should have guns.

steves said...

Then show me where the NRA is telling people to act illegally or irresponsibly.

I don't think bad people should have guns.

Streak said...

Illegal? I am not sure they are openly encouraging illegality. Irresponsibility? Absolutely. I think the very idea they suggest that more armed citizens is better, as well as their very strong efforts to make enforcement hard, means that people who should not have guns will.

And you continue to miss my point. I am, here, not talking about criminals. I am talking about people like everyone of the ones we have discussed from people taking loaded weapons to gun shows, or shooting people in their driveway, or rushing out the door with a loaded gun to subdue a criminal--most of those people were legal gun owners and were not criminals until they shot people. But there is no way they should have had guns.

But the gun culture I am talking about is exactly telling them that they should and can have a gun. That is the culture that leads them to take loaded Ak's to public places just to prove that they can.

Tony said...

Anohter school shooting--today

steves said...

The NRA is anti-OC (open carry), much to the annoyance of the people that do so. I have mixed feelings about OC, especially rifle OC.

I think we all agree that people shouldn't be doing stupid and irresponsible things. The problem is that it is hard to tell who is going to do this kind of stuff. What do you think could be done?

Streak said...

I have been saying since this began that we need a cultural shift. Not the video game argument, but the idea that we romanticize the lone gunman. The NRA does that every damn time they say that all we need to battle bad guys is a good guy with a gun.

If the NRA was sober about this, I might respect them. If the gun rights people weren't constantly talking about the need to fight our own government, I might respect them.

steves said...

I see what you mean. Instead of focusing on the "good guy" thing, focus on enforcing laws that work, safety, and responsibility.

Streak said...

Yeah, that is what I mean. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that the NRA is the only one urging people to get guns. But I think this part of the gun culture has been embraced by the gun rights side in a way that is not helpful.

Streak said...

Oh, and also just read on TPM that the woman who testified before Congress on the need for at home moms to have huge guns to defend their family is actually a conservative activist who has even opposed the Violence against Women Act.

steves said...

I can't specifically speak to her opposition to the VAWA, but most conservatives oppose it because it is unconstitutional. Honestly, in terms of a firearm purely for home defense, an AR type rifle is not a bad choice. It is better than a shotgun.

Streak said...

Protecting women from domestic violence should be a priority. And I am going to say that most of the conservatives I have seen object are people who don't really want to help women avoid domestic violence. What a bunch of shit.