June 24, 2011

Conservatives used to be rooted in reality

And used to be cautious. That is a point that Sullivan has made many times--that a Burkean conservative would not dismantle the welfare state willy-nilly, because that would be disastrous.

But the point about being rooted in reality and facts, and being suspicious of theory is Zakaria's best point in How Conservatism Lost Touch with Reality - TIME. This is not new to us, but a good rundown of where conservatives simply ignore reality in favor of what they want to be true.
"Many Republican businessmen have told me that the Obama Administration is the most hostile to business in 50 years. Really? More than that of Richard Nixon, who presided over tax rates that reached 70%, regulations that spanned whole industries, and who actually instituted price and wage controls?

In fact, right now any discussion of government involvement in the economy — even to build vital infrastructure — is impossible because it is a cardinal tenet of the new conservatism that such involvement is always and forever bad. Meanwhile, across the globe, the world's fastest-growing economy, China, has managed to use government involvement to create growth and jobs for three decades. From Singapore to South Korea to Germany to Canada, evidence abounds that some strategic actions by the government can act as catalysts for free-market growth."

The list is really endless, actually. Support for abstinence only even though study after study shows that it doesn't work as well as comprehensive sex ed. Or denial of climate change or evolution simply because they don't like what those might mean.

I would welcome a debate with conservatives who have both feet in reality. Watching the debate on taxation is like pushing through fog. Even though our taxes are at a historic low, every Republican bitches about how high our taxes are.


122112 said...

Abstinence works perfectly every time it is used. The problem is, not many want to use it.

Evolution is incompatible with Christianity, which is probably the chief reason Christians won't accept evolution.

Streak said...

Sheesh. How many freaking times do we get these anonymous trolls bitching about evolution?

And number dude, abstinence only is a public policy solution that doesn't work as policy. No one denies that abstinence is the best way to avoid pregnancy or STDs, but as policy, we know that it doesn't work as well as a comprehensive approach.

But if you want to simply deny facts and assert what you want to believe--then you are more than comfortable in the Republican party.

Oh, and you clearly don't understand evolution, so your assertion that it is incompatible with Christianity is about as thoughtful as the rest of your comment.

122112 said...

When people insist on fornicating, telling them not to is a waste of time and money. People usually do what they want, even when they know there will be negative consequences.

Real Christians believe and follow the Bible. The account of creation told in the Bible is a direct contradiction of the theory of evolution. Most evolutionists would agree. Those who try to combine Christianity with evolution always do it by pretending the Bible means something other than what it says.

Streak said...

Read a goddamned book on evolution and come talk to me.

Streak said...

I am so tired of dumb fundy trolls.

122112 said...

The Bible says that God created the universe, and all life on earth, in SIX DAYS. Ask any evolutionist if they agree with that.

Jesus Christ's geneology is traced all the way back to Adam, who the Bible calls "the son of God". (Luke 3) Ask any evolutionist if they think Adam was even real, let alone the first man.

I could give other examples, but the point is, it is very easy to demonstate that the Bible and evolution contradict each other, and are incompatible.

Streak said...

Actually, ask most thinking Christians if they believe in a literal 6 day creation. Most don't. Just the fundys. And most people who accept the fact of evolution would find the issue of Genesis mythology to be largely irrelevant to how species adapt and evolve.

I will now ask you what I ask all the fundy trolls who come through here. Why do you bother to comment at a blog where you are convinced we are all atheist God haters?

122112 said...

Ever heard of the Jewish sabboth? In the Ten Commandments, God commanded the Jews to rest on the seventh day because God rested on the seventh day after the six days of creation. (see Exodus 20: 8-11)
So, it isn't only Christians who believe in the Biblical creation account. This isn't make believe, as you assume, and as fake "Christians" assume.

I don't think you're an atheist; I think you're an idolater. You have invented a god who exists only in your mind. You have rejected the God the Bible talks about in favor of your own little god who will let you believe whatever you want, and do whatever you want.

Streak said...

So you think the Jewish sabbath means that we all have to believe in a literal Genesis story?


Why are you here again?

122112 said...

You don't have to believe the Bible, unless you want to know God.

The point is, both Christianity and Judaism are grounded in the Bible, and the Bible cannot be reconciled with evolution. If you insist on dismissing a six day creation, then you have to also dismiss the Ten Commandments, and really everything else in the Bible. You cannot pretend that a six day creation is myth without making a myth of the rest of the Bible.

Why not just be honest about things? If you believe the Bible, you can't believe evolution. And if you believe evolution, you don't believe the Bible. I'm here to make that point.

Streak said...

But the facts are that everything you say here is demonstrably false. If you had any sense of history or where the church and Christians have come from, you would understand that your statements here make the vast bulk of historical Christians to not be Christians. That may make you feel better, as it is always nice to feel like you are part of a selective club, but it simply is not consistent with theological history, or history of the Christian faith.

You made your point. Shouldn't you be somewhere on a young earth blog talking about that time when the sun stood still? Or, in other words, when the Bible says that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Silly astronomers.

122112 said...

REAL Christians believe the Bible. Phony Christians don't. Whenever you encounter someone who denies the historicity of Genesis, you know immediately that you are dealing with a heretic, not a believer.

Streak said...

How nice for you. Ok, your time here is done. Time to move on to a place where they aren't tired of you questioning their faith.

Leave. Now.

Bob said...

Number dude:

Thanks for pointing out that the facts of the universe are incompatible with the Bible. This is why moderate Christians will fade away, leading to a hollowing out of Christianity with only the fundies left standing. If educated Christians are told they must decide between the Bible and the facts of the universe, many will have a hard time becoming science deniers and will choose reality over the myth of creation.

122112 said...


There are many very well educated Christians who believe the Bible.

As for "moderate Christians" "fading away", I would love it if they would do just that. They are heretics, so I would like very much for them to stop pretending they are Christians.

Streak said...

Why are you still here?