Monk, Steve and I have an interesting conversation the comments, but I thought this was worth raising in a separate post. Monk and Steve both have suggested that Democrats have done a bad job of reaching out to religious people. But I argue that they have reached out as best they could, given the political realities and philosophical differences.
After all, how do Democrats--trying to emphasize separation of Church and State, while also downplaying the need to elect Christians to office, all while emphasizing social justice themes--fair taxation, help for the poor, protection for the environment, etc. How do you do that AND reach out specifically to people of faith? Are they not reaching out to people interested in those themes already?
I argue that Republicans are able to do that because their base believes that Christians are morally superior, and therefore have a monopoly on faith and morality. Their base also believes that Christians should rule, and that our country should be considered a Christian one. But Democrats don't believe either of those things.
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This is a very complex issue and mostly because Christians (or the 'faithful') are an incredibly diverse group that includes a broad range of people all across the political spectrum. The Democrats probably won't be able to woo the social ultra conservatives, but I would guess that this group is in the minority.
How do they reach out? One thing they could do is to stop assuming that all or even most Christians want some kind of Christian government that won't tolerate gay marriage and wants a total ban on any kind of abortion.
I don't know if this is applicable in any way, but on a personal level, I am not sure how welcoming some Democrats are towards Christians. The company I work for is very left leaning. I am not suggesting that they are in any way persecuted, but it is clear from many of the comments I hear, that they believe most Christians are intolerant and ignorant. I wonder if some Christians just assume that they just aren't welcome.
Streak,
I think you have a good point, and before I go on, I want to mention that I do NOT in any way believe that any law can undo the effects of the Fall, that is humans can not make paradise on earth, only God can in the renewal of all things.
That being said, Steves said that liberals he is in contact with "believe most Christians are intolerant and ignorant". Well unfortunately an awful lot of the Church has taught them to be so.
Fear and ignorance has been the essence of control of too many of our Churches for too long. It has produced a lot of people who, unlike the Bereans in Acts 17:11 are unable to check things out.
Now, how can Democrats reach out to Christians?
Well, before the success of the Nixon-Reagan Southern Strategy, a person's faith was pretty private, and really didn't come up much in politics. How many people made a thing out of Eisenhower's being a Jehovah's witness? zippo.
In this post Moral Majority era, religion has become a very charged issue. As to how the Democrats can connect, well they need to get some wisdom and understanding of the Faith they want to attract.
Did you know progressive taxation was invented by God? He expected the rich to pay more in society. He also demanded the poor be taken care of, and limits on what you do with your own property, when that affects others in your community.
Streak, you asked while emphasizing social justice themes--fair taxation, help for the poor, protection for the environment, etc. How do you do that AND reach out specifically to people of faith?
You couch those issues in terms of those people's Faith and you cite their own Scriptures to back you up.
When you want to assail rich robber barons who are milking money from the poor [think Enron] (can anyone give me an AMEN?) you quote Amos 8
4 Hear this, you that trample on the needy, and bring to ruin the poor of the land, 5 saying, "When will the new moon be over so that we may sell grain; and the sabbath, so that we may offer wheat for sale? We will make the ephah small and the shekel great, and practice deceit with false balances, 6 buying the poor for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals, and selling the sweepings of the wheat."
This can be done with care. Now I will try to tune in, but I have go to do my visits to the county jail today, and will be unable to log on for a while. This is a valuable conversation.
You raise some good points, MIT. I certainly wasn't suggesting that some Christians aren't ignorant and intolerant. Some certainly are, and the same can be said for many people in general. My point was that some are not, or some are at least open to reason and are willing to change.
You couch those issues in terms of those people's Faith and you cite their own Scriptures to back you up.
I would suggest that is very hard for Democrats to do, precisely because while many of us believe in those ideas, we do not justify our actions on the Bible. That is what the right wing does.
And let me ask this. If a Christian believes strongly in social justice and doing good for the poor, am I to believe that they will vote for the Republicans simply because their politicians cloak their language in Christianese? If they do, and they vote for policies that are opposite of what they believe, is that the fault of the Democrats for not coddling them?
Part of this discussion is framed in the reality that Democrats are trying to appeal to believers, but also to unbelievers and those who are frustrated with people who frame their entire world around the Bible. They are appealing to the churched and the unchurched alike, primarily because their justification for government is in a more secular justification--but one that should and does appeal to some people of faith.
And let me ask this. If a Christian believes strongly in social justice and doing good for the poor, am I to believe that they will vote for the Republicans simply because their politicians cloak their language in Christianese? If they do, and they vote for policies that are opposite of what they believe, is that the fault of the Democrats for not coddling them?
You are assuming that everyone agrees on what policies are necessary (or even Biblical). There is a huge amount of disagreement. I think it is even fair to say that not all Democrats agree what policies are good and what are bad.
I don't even see why it is necessary to coddle them, any more then it is necessary to coddle union members, minorities, and other various groups that they reach out to.
I am sure that the majority of "believers" also know that the GOP isn't the party of the Bible. Many just believe that the Republicans listen to them (or at least appear to listen to them) and promote some policies that they want.
The Democrats are not going to woo the hard-core conservatives. There best chance is to go after the moderate Christians who don't feel that the government should legislate morality and are ok with gay marriage and other similar issues.
I think we need to remember that it was evangelical church's that chose to become politically active and take over the Republican Party. It was not Republican's who sought out Christians and framed an appealing message. Evangelical churches weren’t even against abortion until they saw a way to galvanize their followers to take political action. Abortion was thought of as a Catholic issue. This is the same movement that drove Jimmy Carter out of his church.
Let’s also look at the messages that Republicans use: Anti-gay, Anti-abortion, “Pro- family”. Democrats cannot attract anyone that way because it is a conservative message, some of which based on hate. Monk has suggested a use of biblical verse that would validate Democratic policies to Christians, but would it really work? Aren’t those people really already with the Dems? Aren’t the Evangelicals already with the Republicans? Maybe it doesn’t really matter?
Those people who look at: gay = bad, Christianity = right, other religions = bad, evolution = lies, etc, live in a black or white world that is likely only compatible with the simpleminded policies pursued by Republicans today. Democrats cannot attract these particular Christians, nor should they try.
Bob makes some good points, I am not sure if the Democrats could use the Scriptures in an effective way. But they way Evangelicals revere verses dropped into political speeches, I think it just MIGHT attract some. At least make them think about it.
Also you said It was not Republican's who sought out Christians and framed an appealing message. Evangelical churches weren’t even against abortion until they saw a way to galvanize their followers to take political action.
The weird thing about being older is that I REMEMBER when what Bob is saying here, was so. I also remember when Jerry Falwell, Francis Schaffer, et all were starting and some older ministers worried about compromising the Gospel. Wow, talk about being right...
Though I am not all that old, I am going to disagree to some level. I am sure that some religious leaders used it as a way to rile up the masses, but there certainly is, and was, an effort from the GOP to court the religious. Barry Goldwater ignored this group and ended up being hurt by this action.
I said that their best strategy would be to go after the moderates. Face it, most elections are won by the party that can attract the middle.
Well, I am not sure that Goldwater's big issue was ignoring the religious right. He was far out of the mainstream in 1964. Plus, he had a philosophical difference with the social conservatives who, as we all know, have no problem with the government intruding in people's lives, just not in how they treat their workers or their land.
It is hard for me to understand how Democrats are not going after the middle. Republicans fear and respect their base, but Democrats often ignore theirs. They often alienate feminists, labor, and enviros with the assumption that they won't go to the other side, while Republicans are, as we speak, pandering to Tea Party idiots.
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