First, Bootleg Blogger, perhaps just to annoy me (:)), sent me this probably because he knows how much I admire the historical knowledge of Pat Robertson:
"Starting in 1607, a missionary thread seems to weave in and out of our nation's history. Do you know what the founding principle of the Virginia Company was back in 1607? Do you know the real reason the English settlers first came here in 1607? Was it to find gold? Discover a passage to the spice islands? Establish plantations? Pursue religious liberty?
As incredible as it sounds, it was missions!"
Hmm. Let's take this slowly. Do you know the real reason the English settlers first came here in 1607?
Yes
Was it to find gold?
Hell yes.
Discover a passage to the spice islands?
No. You are stupid.
Establish plantations?
Nope. That certainly wasn't their intention, though John Smith once expressed his desire to rule the Natives like the Spanish did. He meant to kill them until they submitted. You know, just like Jesus would do. Plantations came later and slowly when purchasing human beings became more cost effective than paying for indentured servants who died easily. Oh, and it took a few years before they discovered the Biblical principles of growing tobacco. I think that passage is somewhere toward the back and they were slow readers, what with the "thou" and such.
Persuing religious liberty and establishing missions? Are these people drunk? If only. That would give them an excuse. But it gets worse, and Pat Robertson (besides giving us the legal geniuses from Regent University) is only one of the historical revisionists out there.
Carlos from Jesus Politics alerted me to this horrible screed from WorldNet Daily. I should not be surprised, but this is horrible. Evidently, Doug Philips thinks that our old explanations for explaining the historical past should be the standard. You know, the stuff that exalts the Christian influence. This, btw, is about Jamestown which included some of the worst elements of European settlement on this continent. These people took pleasure in killing Indians, burning their crops, and considered themslelves superior in every way. They are a curious bunch of people to raise up as founders--Christian or other. But let me allow genius Doug Phillips to speak for himself:
And the reason for the historical amnesia of many Americans is clear. First, we have set aside the biblical commands, like those found in the 78th Psalm, for fathers to teach their children the mighty deeds of God in history. Second, we have surrendered our history – without so much as a whimper of a fight – to philosophically motivated revisionists.As opposed to people like Dougey. I am sure he has no agenda, right? And do the "mighty deeds of God in History" include rampant killing?
Let me guess. I suspect Doug likes the Smiting God. So many do.
Consider also the recent propaganda presented to the children of America care of the friendly evolutionists at National Geographic.This is the part that makes me want to scream. Perhaps Dougey prefers the explanation for disease from 400 years ago too? Let's go get those leaches the next time he experiences an infection. History, as the Dougster sees it, was set in stone when it explained history favorable to him.
Their May 2007 cover story that just hit the stands is entitled: "Jamestown: The Real Story: How settlers destroyed a native Empire and changed the landscape from the ground up."
National Geographic assures us that: "Much of what we learned in grade school about the New World encountered by the colonists at Jamestown is wrong. Four hundred years later, historians are piecing together the real story."
Away with the undisputed histories we have heard and celebrated for close to 400 years! Away with the historical academic record! It's time for a new history for a better tomorrow.
So just what is the "real story" of Jamestown? Answer: environmental injustice.The readers of WorldNet Daily might be a few bricks shy of a load, but the rest of us actually might be interested to know that the evidence for that environmental destruction is pretty substantial. Not iron clad in every sense, but certainly more than Dougey here suggests. We know that colonists brought disease and unintended consequences of new plants and animals to the "New" World. No one says they did most of that on purpose. But you wouldn't know that from Dougey.
Here is what kids can learn from the new history: Christian settlers were "environmental imperialists." They not only brought a host of nasty destructive bugs to the near utopian ecological world of the Native Americans, but they "unsettl[ed] the landscape" and "unleashed what would become a multi-level ecological assault on North America."
What is the proof of these assertions?
I think that is a reasonable question given the fact that such comments are becoming ubiquitous in much of the literature and events associated with the official Jamestown commemoration, as well as articles like this month's National Geographic piece.
The proof? Not much.
True, there are many novel, highly speculative theories presented by academics seeking to distinguish themselves with a new concept. Also true, there appears to be a fair amount of reliance on the modern, so-called "oral tradition" of small groups of sometimes embittered and politically motivated individuals. But that is pretty much it.Dude. Someone who obviously comes from a literal Biblical tradition doesn't get to mock the "oral tradition" since there are no surviving original texts for the Bible either. You are an idiot.
Ah, but the Dougster has an explanation for Jamestown:
Is there an environmental message of Jamestown? Actually, yes.Read that again. This is a rearticulation of the old idea that Indians weren't really people, they were savages who didn't know shit. Nevermind that Europeans sometimes suffered from starvation and other ills, warred incessantly, and killed people accused of witchcraft. Nevermind that some native cultures were ahead on things like the number zero and had better sanitation and urban infrastructure. Nevermind any of that. In Dougey's mind, they are backward savages and no pesky amount of evidence will dissuade his genius mind.
Prior to the arrival of Christian culture in North America, approximately 1 million people, none of whom were united under a single banner, were sparsely distributed on a vast land mass that was in excess of 3 million square miles. These cultures constantly warred against each other, had no written language, worshipped demons and animal spirits, practiced cannibalism and child sacrifice, had no biblical concept of property ownership, and because of insufficient cultivation of the land, sometimes starved, despite access to vast resources.
For all of their shortcomings and errors, it was the Jamestown settlers who first planted the distinctively Christian vision for dominion over the land through careful stewardship of land resources. This vision was a distinctive of Christian culture and found its origins in the express commands of Scripture.
Yeah, those settlers were Bible-readers, like when the settlers quoted the story of the Amelekites to justify killing Indian children. And, Doug, you might want to look a little closer at the actual beliefs of these settlers before you mock those who worship "demons and animal spirits." And the rest of that sentence suggests that you have no earthly idea where capitalism ends and Christianity begins, nor do you really understand Indian cultures. Nor, evidently, do you care.
And I love the "dominion over the land through careful stewardship of land resources." What the hell is he smoking? Some good old Virgina Gold or is he dipping into the Chronic? These Jamestown settlers were neither "careful" nor "stewards." Let me remind us all that John Smith (when he wasn't advocating killing Indians) had to force these "careful stewards" to work to raise the food to keep them from starving (though many did anyway, by the way Doug--even with such ample resources and taking food from Indians).
Doug's historical knowledge is damn near nonexistant, and his theology, well, sucks. What saddens me is how many kids are given this crap and how many adults read it and endorse it. I respectfully think he should re-read his own post and then punch himself in the mouth for uttering such nonsense. And then repeat.
25 comments:
Since your dander is already up, how about perusing this from Doug Phillips. I almost posted on it but just didn't have the stomach after the Conservative Voice baloney.
Just to whet your appetite: A strong case can be made that in a violent society like our own, it is the duty of every Christian man to be armed such that he is ready, willing, and able to come to the immediate aid of his neighbor in the face of the ruthless behavior of lawless men. We have one of two futures — a police state full of regulation and controls, where only the state and criminals have access to guns, thus leaving most women and children defenseless to evildoers, or an informed, well-armed citizen population, which is, to my mind, the surest safeguard against lawless men.
It has some merit, though I wouldn't have worded it that way, nor would I say that an individual has a duty to protect everyone in all circumstances. I think I certainly have a duty to lawfully protect myself and my family.
I think it was Jesus who said to be ready to kill others, right?
Maybe not. As much as I can't quite embrace complete pacifism, I certainly can't embrace this bloodlust cloaked in religion.
Tony, stop riling my dander. :)
Coming to the aid of a neighbor is bloodlust? Defending yourself is bloodlust? I would never advocate murder or even looking for trouble, but what is wrong with defending yourself?
steve, i was responding to doug phillips extremism. He, and many others, seem to embrace violence and especially masculine violence. I don't see that mirrored in the life of Jesus and wonder where the voice of reason and peace is? Look again at that passage that Tony included--he says that there are only two options, a police state or a well armed populace. There are other options.
Doug's goofy Jamestown stuff would make me discount most of what he has to say. Police State vs. well-armed populace. It isn't hard to tell what I would prefer, but I agree that having only those two choices is overly simplistic.
Streak-
"Away with the undisputed histories we have heard and celebrated for close to 400 years! Away with the historical academic record! It's time for a new history for a better tomorrow."
If these people could just really hear their own words- evidently they don't want to let any new evidence inform anything for the last 400 years. Using the word "undisputed" is just a lie. There's been plenty of disputing going on for a long time. Of course the bulk of the most legitimate of the disputers weren't considered real people by Phillips' and Robertson's tribe until the last several decades. I know that you know this, but I'll say it anyway- In reality, these bozos don't have to look to "philosophically motivated revisionists" to blow the lid off of their comfy God ordained fiction. The journals and official papers of the Europeans and, later, Americans spell out in their own words their motivation and methods. These guys, weren't interested in hiding any of this- they were official state and church policies. This isn't a matter of rewriting history- it's a matter of using all of the material currently available. I've probably mentioned on this blog before the words of an historian acquaintance of mine. After he had explained some little known local history I mentioned the cliche "the conqueror writes history". He responded with a knowing smile, "Yes, for the first hundred years." Maybe if you are an Eastern tribe that was pretty much wiped out by the earliest settlers then it takes more like 400 years.
Next on the "dander up" list- Who cares if there was an interest in spreading Christianity to the "natives" 400 years ago??? To me these guys are the embodiment of the tribe in power seeing themselves becoming less and less a majority. If they can't rule by force anymore they're looking to divine right for justification. Sad, sad last gasps. I hope they don't pull the house down with them.
Later-BB
BTW, Streak, I'm deeply hurt that you would say "perhaps just to annoy" you. OF COURSE it was to annoy you:-)!! Later-bb
Steve, of course that is the way Doug and his people operate. The options are never in the grays. I wonder if their concept of freedom and even their understanding of their own faith isn't informed by this binary, dichotomous, manichean worldview. Everything is either black or white. For us or against us. Terrorists or Americans. Christian or "devil worshipper."
And the biggest concern I have, quite frankly, is that his "goofy Jamestown stuff" is part of right wing historical understanding. Theirs, ironically, is the actual revisionism they fear. As BB points out, the conquerers aren't the ones writing the history, or aren't unless Doug and other fundamentalist Christians get their way.
The oddest part of these people is the mix of "persecuted minority" and "we are the majority" mentalities you get from them. No one listens to them, says the fundraising letters that calls them to vote for idiot after idiot, yet they truly want to claim the mantle of historical conquest. I think this type of historical "interpretation" reveals a tremendous inferiority complex.
But that is what you get when you reject reason and rationality and instead choose an epistemology that rejects any form of evidence that you don't like. As I keep saying, there is a line between faith as way to supplement what we cannot know, and faith as a self-imposed system of knowledge that explains anything that makes you uncomfortable.
Very true. Unfortunately, there is plenty of historical revisionism be done by all sides. The best we can do is to expose it when it happens and differentiate it from an honest difference of opinion or competing, reputable sources.
Steve, could you say more about revisionism on both sides. What revisionism from the left are you referring to? Do you have examples of some that come close to what the right is doing in this case? Or is this just another example of assuming that the other side is just as bad?
I had a hard time believing a lot of this stuff until I saw it myself. After our little excursion to Jamestown I became convinced...revisionism all the way through, from hunters and gatherers rather than a self-sustaining established community, to the "unprovoked" attacks on settlers when actually they were defending their food supply, to forced church attendance.
Its hard to deal with facts when they do not align with your worldview.
I probably should have used the word groups instead of sides. I think it may be hard, in some cases, to attribute the actions of a smaller group to a larger movement or ideology. Additionally, I believe that there are examples that are worse than others. Some of these include the Jamestown stuff and the Holocaust denial wackos.
I am an amateur historian, at best. I enjoy history, but I'll admit that there are plenty of areas where I don't know much...Jamestown for one. I have never even been there.
As for examples of both sides engaging in revisioninsm, one that I do know about is the separation of church and state debate. Advocates from both sides tend to emphasize certain facts, take things out of context, and ignore other things. Most of the mainstream groups and legitimate historians in this debate are guilty to some degree, though I do not find them acting as bad as Doug or the Holocaust denial groups.
I was poking around my book shelf and found a book that someone had given me to read in the mid-90's. It was "Not Out of Africa," by Mary Lefkowitz. I can't say that I hear much about it now, but I do remember an Afrocentric movement that was saying the ancient Greeks culture was "stolen" from the Egyptians, who were black. I also recall some rappers getting into it, like Professor Griff, who was in Public Enemy. This is a good example of soemthing that I would not atribute to the left, but rather just to Afrocentrists.
Another more blatant example is Michael Bellesiles. He was a professor of history and head of undergrad studies at Emory University. He was also an anti-gun activist. He wrote a book called "Arming America," where he argued that guns were not as prominent throughout American history as was previously thought, which won a Bancroft Prize. There were other professors that disputed his claims and it was shown that he altered data and made up certain figures. An inquiry found serious flaws with his work and the Bancroft Prize was rescinded on the grounds of academic misconduct. He resigned as a result of this.
I thought you might go to the Bellesiles example. It is a relevant one, though I am not sure his broader argument is really either that controversial or has been disproven. He suggested that Americans were not as well armed as everyone assumes. I think there is actual evidence for that. That doesn't excuse him for altering facts or citing collections that didn't exist.
But you said something else that puzzles me. You noted that you were an amateur historian, but that "Most of the mainstream groups and legitimate historians in this debate are guilty to some degree,..." I realize that was limited to the discussion of the separation of church argument, but I am curious how you know that the "legitimate historians" are guilty of revisionism? How do you define revisionism?
For the record, I am one of those legitmate historians, though not as well-published as most. I cringe when I hear the word "revisionism" because that usually means what Dougey here suggested, that the history presented to them doesn't match their preconceived idea.
The Bellesiles example is actually evidence that legitimate historians take scholarship seriously. Let me give you another example, and I will dare to bet that many amateur historians love his work. You may not. The late Stephen Ambrose was found to plagiarize whole passages from lesser known scholars to supplement much of his "book mill" production. But his books were so patriotic and pro-America that the same groups that hated the Bellesiles book (pro gun people, naturally) were largely absent from the Ambrose debate. Professional historians (though not all, by any stretch) were critical of both.
I don't know of any mainstream or legitimate historian who engages in the kind of revisionism that we see in this Jamestown debate--or even close, and that includes separation of church and state issues.
I dropped out of a grad program in history, so maybe I need to have revisionism explained. Surely it can't just be limited to history, though, right?
I mean it seemed to take revisionist scientists to ask new questions, to discover and apply new information, and to submit their findings for evaluation by others in order to overturn, for example, the model of the Earth-centric universe. Damn, Galileo and those revisionist scientists!
I am just trying to get into the spirit of things is all.
Sometimes my writing is better than at other times. It was not my intention to say that historians engage in revisionism. In the narrow area of church-state debate, there have been attempts to emphasize certain events and minimize others. This is not the same as revisioninsm and I aplogize.
I know that the acedemic world is very serious when it comes fabricating data. This is why I tend to trust peer reviewed research even if it goes against what I previously believed. Bellesiles may have had a point, but what he did was inexcusable. I am aware of what Ambrose did and I don't know a single person that defends him. I am sure there are some, but you won't find them on pro-gun boards.
Can you say //liberal//?
Yes, Anonymous, I can say liberal.
What is your point?
I am not sure that I can say //liberal//
I mean, I know how to say the word liberal, but what do I do with the symbols? Do I say 'forward slash forward slash liberal forward slash forward slash?'
I think it is kind of like Prince during the unpronouncable symbol days. Maybe conservatives have so listened to Rush and Hannity that they think that "liberal" is like that.
Hey, watch this:
//conservative//
What do you think of that?
Tony, I would have thought that it might be \\conservative\\ but that's just me. I'm still not sure how to pronounce it.
Do you suppose the folks in the middle are ||moderate||? That's even less clear to me. Is that straight up straight up moderate straight up straight up? Or maybe fencepost fencepost moderate fencepost fencepost?
ubub,
You are probably right--or left; crap, I don't know.
To muddle things up a little, when I was in rural Tennessee it was actually pronounced "librl" i.e. no vowels after the b. It was usually plural and preceeded by the descriptor "damn" as in "those damn librls". In other southern areas I've heard it pronounced "lib-er-al"- kind of drawn out and usually spoken in a sudden hushed tone mid-sentence, e.g. "You know so-and-so, he's pretty lib-er-al".
After watching Bill Moyers interview the editor of Reason magazine last night I'd add to the discussion, "can you say libertarian?".
Later-BB
Hmm, that one's tricky. I think maybe that's one that you are supposed to say /|\Libertarian/|\
to reflect their economic positions (akin to conservatives) and social positions (akin to liberals) and other stuff (sometimes akin to moderates). I am still not sure how to pronounce it.
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