That's nice, but I have no money for increased taxes. Maybe people who have the money, and are willing to fund this program could provide the funding and relieve the taxpayers of the burden?
Rich, that is nonsensical, and you clearly didn't even read the piece. You will end up paying through your taxes for more crime because of not funding things like this. You aren't getting a break here either way. Just depends on whether you want good governance or not.
We don't ask the wealthy to pay for all of these programs by themselves for some very good reasons. One, we then are dependent on them (privatization, anyone?) and when their giving goes down, so go very important programs like TAKING CARE OF ABUSED KIDS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, and second because we live in a broader community where we recognize that we share certain burdens.
Perhaps you want a situation where you have to pay $300 to call that ambulance even when a loved one is in dire need and, as you just noted, you don't have the money. Perhaps you would prefer to not have street lights, or sewage management, or clean water, or even perhaps police?
Shall we simply devolve into gated, private communities where the have's live and let everyone else purify their own water?
I just know I have no more money for ANY new taxes. If that means the problems get worse, they will just have to get worse.
Here's an idea: everyone be responsible for acting right and taking care of their own children, like I have to do. If you can't do that, then DON'T HAVE KIDS!
I guess this makes me Karl Fucking Marx because I support this kind of stuff %100. Not only is it the right thing to do, but, as Streak points out, the benefits to society are tangible and measurable.
I'll dismantle Rick's argument when I have more time and detail the problems that Republicans and Democrats have funding these kinds of programs.
This kind of program is the best kind; it's the kind that turns people who eat from the public trough into self-sufficient, self reliant taxpayers. This is moving KIDS and families out of risk and into the cycle o success. Programs like this in MI are extremely successful.
No surprise folks like rick don't see its value. From his perspective, it is better to keep people on "welfare" so they have a straw man enemy to bitch about than it is to get people on their feet and out of dependency...government dependency, substance dependency, etc.
I am willing to give Rick a bit of benefit here. He says he is strapped for cash and I will concede that times are tough all over. My question, however, is regarding the nature of that economic difficulty. If Rick is in the working, and lower middle class, there are options to raising taxes that do not saddle them with more problems. It is called a Progressive income tax, and maybe working class and poorer Americans should stop voting for Republicans if that is their difficulty.
Second, the economic problems of today are largely the result of conservative economic polices over the last 30 years. Conservative economic policies that, yes, even Bill Clinton encouraged, but that doesn't make them any less conservative. Cutting taxes on the wealthy, deregulating any and all businesses, and cutting federal investment into programs such as education and good jobs--that has had an impact. No, of course, not all taxes are good, and the same goes for regulations, but we have stepped over the Rubicon, and the Republican party can't even think of raising taxes or regulating banks.
Either way, Rick is getting hosed by the very people he elects.
There are many problems. The Fed, fractional reserve banking, socialism, government welfare for businesses and individuals, government debt, private debt, loss of manufacturing jobs, unions, corrupt politicians and government employees, etc, etc.
I don't think either the Republicans or the Democrats want to solve the problems. And I don't believe the American people are willing to do what is necessary to fix the problems, if they even can be fixed.
Ah yes, the socialism. Oh, the socialism. I notice none of your problem list stupid voters who vote for incredibly stupid people in office. Or who listen to Glenn Beck as if he has something to say.
And this is simply ridiculous on its face. We have programs that actually work (the one in Tulsa is actually a good program) yet you have decided that all of it is bad and cannot be funded.
Government is certainly not the solution to all of our problems. Not even close. But neither is it our enemy. Nihilism like this is our enemy.
Theoretically, government does not have to be the problem, but reality has proven to be different from theory. The government spends far too much money and tries to do far more than it should. Add to that the corruption that is rampant in government, and you get the reality that we now have. Short of a civil war, and a default on government debt, I doubt if there is a way to fix things. And even those drastic measures might not fix it.
But Rick, those are just talking points. Do you really know whether our government is more corrupt than it has been in the past? (Where was this talk of civil war when the Republicans were in charge, btw?) Default is, as Bruce Bartlett has noted, simply not even possible and certainly not the good thing that so many conservatives seem to think it is.
As for the government doing far too much, I am curious where? What freedoms have you lost because of government?
In fact, I would suggest that our government does too little. I buy ground beef rarely because I am afraid that this particular deregulated market will give me e-coli. If I had kids, I would worry about toys tainted with poisons. I do worry about my dog food, because Republicans have told me that the free market is genius. A deregulated economy gave us this banking failure and mortgage disaster.
Our government can do much good. Your water is basically clean and you are not breathing too many toxins because of this government. The government has stopped (mostly) children being put in dangerous work environs, and has made it illegal to segregate based on race.
Let's stop talking about civil war and actually talk about the things we can do to make things better.
Have you ever wondered why a rich man would spend millions of his own money to be elected to a job that pays $178,000/yr, if that is what Congressmen get now? Is he doing that just to be of service to the public? I think not. He knows that he will get back several times what he paid, both over the table and under it.
We have an FDA. If the agents are looking the other way when hamburger is being made, it is because someone is being bought off(corruption).
The banking "crisis" and the mortgage "crisis" I believe where engineered, by those in the govenment, to give money to the banks, some of which would return to the politicians under the table. The whole thing is a scam. If you are a banker and can lend nine times what you have in deposits, you have to be a drooling imbecile to lose money. Money is being stolen, not lost.
Rick, two things. On the rich man running for office, you are giving me conjecture, not evidence. Yes, some are clearly doing so because they make money, but others do so (on both sides of the aisle) because of a sense of civic responsibility. The fact that you don't trust them is fine, but that alone is not evidence.
On the FDA, you don't know what you are talking about. Since the 80s, the numbers of inspectors has been cut down dramatically. They don't have to bribe the inspectors. In addition, the FDA doesn't even have the authority to order a recall. They can only suggest one.
Are you a Glenn Beck fan? Your last paragraph sounds a lot like his conspiratorial thinking. Groups of people in back rooms actually creating a mortgage crisis just to fuck with you?
If that is the case, then we have really nothing to talk about, because facts are unimportant to you. This is the kind of nihilism I was talking about. You have given up on democracy and so do nothing, because you believe that you can do nothing. Except, I guess, bitch about paying taxes.
I would suggest there is one thing you could do, and that would be to educate yourself. Read some history. And read some economics. And stop listening to talk radio.
Hey, you are the one who said stupid things like the FDA inspectors had to be bribed. When I pointed out that there aren't enough of them, you just changed the subject.
You can call me arrogant all you want. It doesn't avoid the demonstrable fact that you have no facts or evidence to back your stupidity up. When faced with facts, you just turn to name calling.
Go back to listening to Glenn Beck and leave me alone.
17 comments:
That's nice, but I have no money for increased taxes. Maybe people who have the money, and are willing to fund this program could provide the funding and relieve the taxpayers of the burden?
Rich, that is nonsensical, and you clearly didn't even read the piece. You will end up paying through your taxes for more crime because of not funding things like this. You aren't getting a break here either way. Just depends on whether you want good governance or not.
We don't ask the wealthy to pay for all of these programs by themselves for some very good reasons. One, we then are dependent on them (privatization, anyone?) and when their giving goes down, so go very important programs like TAKING CARE OF ABUSED KIDS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, and second because we live in a broader community where we recognize that we share certain burdens.
Perhaps you want a situation where you have to pay $300 to call that ambulance even when a loved one is in dire need and, as you just noted, you don't have the money. Perhaps you would prefer to not have street lights, or sewage management, or clean water, or even perhaps police?
Shall we simply devolve into gated, private communities where the have's live and let everyone else purify their own water?
I just know I have no more money for ANY new taxes. If that means the problems get worse, they will just have to get worse.
Here's an idea: everyone be responsible for acting right and taking care of their own children, like I have to do. If you can't do that, then DON'T HAVE KIDS!
I guess this makes me Karl Fucking Marx because I support this kind of stuff %100. Not only is it the right thing to do, but, as Streak points out, the benefits to society are tangible and measurable.
I'll dismantle Rick's argument when I have more time and detail the problems that Republicans and Democrats have funding these kinds of programs.
This kind of program is the best kind; it's the kind that turns people who eat from the public trough into self-sufficient, self reliant taxpayers. This is moving KIDS and families out of risk and into the cycle o success. Programs like this in MI are extremely successful.
No surprise folks like rick don't see its value. From his perspective, it is better to keep people on "welfare" so they have a straw man enemy to bitch about than it is to get people on their feet and out of dependency...government dependency, substance dependency, etc.
I am willing to give Rick a bit of benefit here. He says he is strapped for cash and I will concede that times are tough all over. My question, however, is regarding the nature of that economic difficulty. If Rick is in the working, and lower middle class, there are options to raising taxes that do not saddle them with more problems. It is called a Progressive income tax, and maybe working class and poorer Americans should stop voting for Republicans if that is their difficulty.
Second, the economic problems of today are largely the result of conservative economic polices over the last 30 years. Conservative economic policies that, yes, even Bill Clinton encouraged, but that doesn't make them any less conservative. Cutting taxes on the wealthy, deregulating any and all businesses, and cutting federal investment into programs such as education and good jobs--that has had an impact. No, of course, not all taxes are good, and the same goes for regulations, but we have stepped over the Rubicon, and the Republican party can't even think of raising taxes or regulating banks.
Either way, Rick is getting hosed by the very people he elects.
There are many problems. The Fed, fractional reserve banking, socialism, government welfare for businesses and individuals, government debt, private debt, loss of manufacturing jobs, unions, corrupt politicians and government employees, etc, etc.
I don't think either the Republicans or the Democrats want to solve the problems. And I don't believe the American people are willing to do what is necessary to fix the problems, if they even can be fixed.
In other words, we're screwed.
Ah yes, the socialism. Oh, the socialism. I notice none of your problem list stupid voters who vote for incredibly stupid people in office. Or who listen to Glenn Beck as if he has something to say.
And this is simply ridiculous on its face. We have programs that actually work (the one in Tulsa is actually a good program) yet you have decided that all of it is bad and cannot be funded.
Government is certainly not the solution to all of our problems. Not even close. But neither is it our enemy. Nihilism like this is our enemy.
Theoretically, government does not have to be the problem, but reality has proven to be different from theory. The government spends far too much money and tries to do far more than it should. Add to that the corruption that is rampant in government, and you get the reality that we now have. Short of a civil war, and a default on government debt, I doubt if there is a way to fix things. And even those drastic measures might not fix it.
But Rick, those are just talking points. Do you really know whether our government is more corrupt than it has been in the past? (Where was this talk of civil war when the Republicans were in charge, btw?) Default is, as Bruce Bartlett has noted, simply not even possible and certainly not the good thing that so many conservatives seem to think it is.
As for the government doing far too much, I am curious where? What freedoms have you lost because of government?
In fact, I would suggest that our government does too little. I buy ground beef rarely because I am afraid that this particular deregulated market will give me e-coli. If I had kids, I would worry about toys tainted with poisons. I do worry about my dog food, because Republicans have told me that the free market is genius. A deregulated economy gave us this banking failure and mortgage disaster.
Our government can do much good. Your water is basically clean and you are not breathing too many toxins because of this government. The government has stopped (mostly) children being put in dangerous work environs, and has made it illegal to segregate based on race.
Let's stop talking about civil war and actually talk about the things we can do to make things better.
Have you ever wondered why a rich man would spend millions of his own money to be elected to a job that pays $178,000/yr, if that is what Congressmen get now? Is he doing that just to be of service to the public? I think not. He knows that he will get back several times what he paid, both over the table and under it.
We have an FDA. If the agents are looking the other way when hamburger is being made, it is because someone is being bought off(corruption).
The banking "crisis" and the mortgage "crisis" I believe where engineered, by those in the govenment, to give money to the banks, some of which would return to the politicians under the table. The whole thing is a scam. If you are a banker and can lend nine times what you have in deposits, you have to be a drooling imbecile to lose money. Money is being stolen, not lost.
Rick, two things. On the rich man running for office, you are giving me conjecture, not evidence. Yes, some are clearly doing so because they make money, but others do so (on both sides of the aisle) because of a sense of civic responsibility. The fact that you don't trust them is fine, but that alone is not evidence.
On the FDA, you don't know what you are talking about. Since the 80s, the numbers of inspectors has been cut down dramatically. They don't have to bribe the inspectors. In addition, the FDA doesn't even have the authority to order a recall. They can only suggest one.
Are you a Glenn Beck fan? Your last paragraph sounds a lot like his conspiratorial thinking. Groups of people in back rooms actually creating a mortgage crisis just to fuck with you?
If that is the case, then we have really nothing to talk about, because facts are unimportant to you. This is the kind of nihilism I was talking about. You have given up on democracy and so do nothing, because you believe that you can do nothing. Except, I guess, bitch about paying taxes.
I would suggest there is one thing you could do, and that would be to educate yourself. Read some history. And read some economics. And stop listening to talk radio.
You and I are just about polar opposites. Your crowd is now in charge, and we'll see what they do. I predict they will make things worse.
Yes, I can see that. I am on the side and in the crowd of people who actually believe in facts.
If it weren't for your arrogance, you would have no personality at all.
Hey, you are the one who said stupid things like the FDA inspectors had to be bribed. When I pointed out that there aren't enough of them, you just changed the subject.
You can call me arrogant all you want. It doesn't avoid the demonstrable fact that you have no facts or evidence to back your stupidity up. When faced with facts, you just turn to name calling.
Go back to listening to Glenn Beck and leave me alone.
If it weren't for your arrogance,
I love it when we are called "arrogant" when we stick to facts.
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