Michelle says:
"President Bush acts as a Christian where it counts most, in his heart. Just like most of the human race, people sin, no one is perfect. He cries with families who are hurt by terrorists, that is him being a Christian. He flies to where his troops are to be with them when it matters most, that is him being a Christian. He visits the people that need help and does what he can to offer a hand and that is him being a Christian.
Actually, Michelle, he has not attended a single funeral and everything else you have described has no connection to Christianity. I hope he has cried with the families of the soldiers who died for his war. I have never said that he had no heart, and in fact, I said he was probably sincere when he said he had faith, but that doesn't mean action. Has he changed the way that politicians respond to each other? Maybe treated an adversary different? No. He has lied and dissembled and done the things that politicians do. But stating that you will ruin someone's reputation is not Christian. And don't forget South Carolina, where he spread a rumor that John McCain had fathered an illegitimate black baby. Is that Christian, Michelle? Can you imagine Jesus doing that?
While Kerry will say what he 'should' say depending on what type of group he is speaking to, Bush stands for what he believes in - you won't see him 'flip flop' on the important issues.
I will acknowledge that Kerry has flip-flopped on some issues, and can certainly be accused of hedging, but to say that Bush stands for what he believes, is, well, naive. Bush has flip-flopped on everything from the 9-11 commission to the Homeland Security as a Cabinet position. He said nation building was a bad idea, now he is doing it, well, badly. So, Michelle, you will need to put down the RNC talking points if you come back here. The main difference between us is that I don't worship Kerry. You worship Bush.
I am so sick and tired of people from different backgrounds being 'insulted' by this and that. People came to America to be American's. With that comes the United States flag, the Pledge of Allegiance, and freedom of religion (and not just one type).
I have no idea what you are saying here. I guess you are arguing for the melting pot theory. Hmm. Well, speaking of naive, I am also guessing that your family background is intensely WASPish.
You note that Republicans are trumpeting their 'family values', well where were you after 9-11 when people from other countries were insulted by our very own American Flag?
Oh yes, Bravo, Michelle! Family values=flag waving? I thought it had to do with families and, well, values. Michelle, did you ever think that some other people out there in the world don't love us as much as you do? Perhaps if they feel their individual interests are being endangered (maybe with our bombs) that they might not find comfort in our flag? Hmm? Or have y ou been so indoctrinated with our secular religion of American worship that you really do think that our country was somehow breathed into existence by God?
People are entitled to their own opinion, that is one of the great things about the USA. At the same time, if I feel gay marriage is wrong; you have the choice to be for it. How wonderful is that. On that note, where did prayer in school go? The Pledge of Allegiance? If you don't want to pray then don't, but don't ridicule me for it.
I don't remember ridiculing anyone for praying. But since you brought it up, Michelle, forcing anyone to say a Pledge is fascist. I know your parents taught you different, and you are shocked to hear it, but this is exactly the kinds of things they did in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. That doesn't make us either communist or fascist, but forcing people to love America is antithetical to our very values.
You shouldn't condemn a whole political party for individual beliefs. I am proud to say that President Bush stands for something, and that something is FREEDOM! The freedom to believe in God and express his beliefs. The freedom to fly the United States flag whereever and whenever he wants to. The freedom to say a prayer and not just before supper, but during the day, perhaps at work even! Just as I would never ask someone who is Buddhist to stop saying a prayer, I expect the same respect from all nationalities. God Bless America and thank you President George W. Bush for being a Christian, an American and the best dang President you can be.
Michelle - Dallas, TX"
Again with the prayer. Pray all you fucking want, Michelle. It might be hard for you to read, but I believe in God too. I am a straight, married male, who pays his taxes, and treats his spouse with respect. I love my country, and respect my institutions. If you read more of my stuff, you will see that. I am critical of this President and his Christian friends for not holding him accountable for his faith. Kerry doesn't claim to get his marching orders from God. Bush does. And so I expect him to act accordingly. I expect him to not just love rich people, and to turn the other cheek on occasion, and to hate war, and to care for the sick and the needy--not just in a photo opp, but in policy. I expect him to not ridicule a woman on death row. I expect him not to act like John Wayne when describing war. I expect a President to read more than Oswald Chambers. I expect a lot from him. And I am perpetually disappointed.
But thanks for stopping by. I can see that I made you mad. Perhaps that is a good thing. In Dallas, you are probably surrounded by angry Longhorn fans and Dubya devotees. It is good that you are out on the web reading ideas counter to yours. Feel free to come back and comment.
6 comments:
I believe that you and your friends are Christians, but trying to FORCE your opinions on everyone and calling people who don't believe what you have to say names is just wrong. Yes I do like to see what others out there think and believe...I don't plan on condemning anyone for not having the same beliefs that I do. I encourage it, that is what makes us human and individuals. You however make me laugh, you are a joke. The following quote was from you in reply to something I wrote. You didn't even read what I wrote, you just replied to have the last word and try once more to force your opinion on someone.
"I don't remember ridiculing anyone for praying. But since you brought it up, Michelle, forcing anyone to say a Pledge is fascist. I know your parents taught you different, and you are shocked to hear it, but this is exactly the kinds of things they did in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. That doesn't make us either communist or fascist, but forcing people to love America is antithetical to our very values."
Now back to what I wrote: People are entitled to their own opinion, that is one of the great things about the USA. At the same time, if I feel gay marriage is wrong; you have the choice to be for it. How wonderful is that. On that note, where did prayer in school go? The Pledge of Allegiance? If you don't want to pray then don't, but don't ridicule me for it.
READ THAT CAREFULLY. If you don't want to pray then don't, but don't ridicule me for it.
Wow, I don't think anywhere in there was anything stating "but forcing people to love America is antithetical to our very values". Umm NOPE! I was stating that I can believe in what I want to, you and people of other faiths have that same choice. But if you choose to come to the USA, don't be all pissy and fight the rights that we as Americans have.
If you are so against war, which is actually the USA helping out other nations, then move your happy ass to France. Go practice your beliefs over there where you won't have any problems with President Bush or war. Come back to reality Streak...you are living in the wishes of a flower power child of God.
Welcome back, Michelle, Dallas TX.,
With all due respect, you still seem to say that Bush is Christian because he says he is. Acting on his faith--policy wise--might convince me otherwise. Just saying it? Hell, anyone can do that.
I still don't think I ever mocked you for praying. Unless you think prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance are the same thing? And Michelle, what the hell does this mean? "But if you choose to come to the USA, don't be all pissy and fight the rights that we as Americans have." What rights am I fighting? The right to dissent? I was born here, btw, so I have the same rights you do whether you like that or not. And while we are on the subject, you say your are tolerant but tell me to move to France, because that is where all, what, traitors go? Those who don't think Bush is a good Christian have to move to France? And our war is just helping out other nations? Why does the rest of the world hate us so much under your beloved Bush?
I started this comment with a bit of compassion, but now think Greg was right. You have no clue what America stands for or what Christianity is all about. If you are telling people to leave the country, I don't think much of Christ's teachings sunk in. You might be more comfortable with the teachings of Machiavelli, or perhaps Stalin. Telling me "love it or leave it" (and yes, Michelle, Dallas TX, I know that is not a direct quote--but an accurate restatement of you inviting me to move to France) displays a tremendous ignorance. America isn't a "love it or leave it" country. That great designation describes the former Soviet Union or Communist China, or Iraq under Saddam. This is as much my country as yours--and given your shocking misunderstanding of basic American ideals--perhaps more. You perfectly describe the ignorant response: "You are free to be American as long as you do it my way." Otherwise you have to move to Paris.
And your best quote, I leave for last: "Come back to reality Streak...you are living in the wishes of a flower power child of God." I don't know about the 'flower power' part, but I can only hope I am a child of God acting out his views on social justice. That you would state that as a pejorative only shows your bias.
Peace. (with the two fingers)
"Pumping sunshine." Damn that sounds funny.
Guys, she does have some points, really. Are you listening?
Do you feel the anger welling up? Take a closer look...
Headless,
You will need to actually name some examples.
Since I pretend to teach on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, I have not replied to your conversation with Michelle. Here goes:
Michelle said: I am so sick and tired of people from different backgrounds being 'insulted' by this and that. People came to America to be American's. With that comes the United States flag, the Pledge of Allegiance, and freedom of religion (and not just one type).
Fine - I am sick and tired of thinking about how Americans murdered my great grandparents and forced them to move from their homeland to a reservation. Then, Americans put corrupt people in charge of the reservation, treated them in a way that was tantamount to slavery (or at least forced labor) and then left many to die. Finally, I am sick and tired of "Americans" saying that all of that is the past and Indigenous people should get over it. It strikes me that the "we are all Americans" rant is used for conventient purposes and again demonstrates myopia when it comes to history. It assumes that all people in the United States - black, Indian, Hispanic, women, working class, etc. - have had equal access to citizenship throughout history. This, of course, is a fallacy and assumes things like the Voting Rights Act or other acts have leveled the playing field and provided equal access for all Americans.
Michelle wrote: If you are so against war, which is actually the USA helping out other nations, then move your happy ass to France.
Of course many people will debate whether the war in Iraq is helping out Iraq. We probably cannot come to firm conclusions for a number of years. However, it seems that Michelle glosses over historical incidents, where America claims it is helping out "other nations" and actually causes irreperable harm. For instance, in the 1950s, the USA funded the overthrow of a nominal left leaning, democratically-elected leader (I believe, but I do not have the information at my beck and call) in Guatemala. What about the efforts of US officials to "civilize" American Indians in the 19th and 20th centuries, under the guise of helping out other nations. People have a right to be skeptical of the current war to help out Iraq.
Cold in Laramie
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