November 24, 2006

Talk about Prophetic

Andrew Sullivan | The Daily Dish: Quote for the Day: "'Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them...

There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'' - Barry Goldwater"


volfan007 said...

what's wrong with christians voting for people who feel and think as we feel? what's wrong with us saying that we want our leaders to vote a certain way? do not liberal, non christians do the same thing. for example, if you vote to end abortion, i will not vote for you. if you dont vote for gun control, i will not vote for you, etc.

why do you all not want christians to vote thier conscience and ask the leaders to stand on what we feel is right? wow! could it be that you all dont agree with us, and dont like how we believe?

the u.s. is a free country where we can all vote and say what we want. we can ask our leaders to do what's right. thank God for a free country.


Streak said...


No one is saying that Christians don't have the right to vote their conscience. But what Goldwater suggested was that Christian fundamentalists are absolutists when it comes to their view, which means that compromise is out of the question. Politics, however, is the art of compromise.

Further, and this all occurs after Goldwater's day, people like James Dobson have proven themselves not only intractable on certain moral issues, but thuggish in how they approach the political process. Add to that their selective morality--gays and abortion, for example, while no political concern for poverty, the environment, or things like good government--and you have a political constituency that is very difficult to deal with.

In addition, as David Kuo suggests, this kind of absolutism and search for political power makes Christians vulnerable to the worst kind of political manipulation. Bush, or people in his administration, have been quite adept at selling the conservative Christian community all the while acting in ways that are patently unChristian.

No one is saying that Christians should not be concerned with morality or should not participate. And the ones who are threatening our freedom are not liberals, btw. It is conservatives who have given us the Patriot act, suspension of habeas corpus, and legitimizing torture.

volfan007 said...

would you be for listening to discussions on ending abortion...the murder of unborn children? i mean, really consider it. do you think nancy pelosi would be for really listening to this? would you be for listening to someone tell you why we should have guns? would hillary be for not only hearing it but seriously considering it? would feinstein be for listening to conservative christians view on homosexuals?

btw, i never said it was alright to torture anyone. never said it was alright to listen in on anyones phone calls. never have been for the govt. having more power...aint for taxes either. in fact, i vote against anyone who raises taxes or who talks about its necessity. and, i am about as conservative as you can get.

and, from your post, you sound like you would be for silencing conservative christians and limiting free speech as the canadians have done in telling preachers that calling homosexuality a sin is hate speech and punishable by law. sounds like the non christian liberal crowd is for limiting free speech and the freedom to believe. i listen to the liberals and other non christians talk and it sounds like they would be for hushing up christians entirely. i would fight for your right to say and believe what you want to. i think you are wrong. but, i would fight for your right to beleive it and say it.


Streak said...

There are issues that are difficult--in that both sides are pretty set in their ways. I don't deny that. But in a political situation, we look for some solutions. Abortion is a great point. From my perspective, as a liberal Christian, I struggle greatly with abortion--perhaps more than any other issue. I understand both points of view. But one thing we could all agree on would be serious reduction in the numbers. We can, and in cases, do, work side by side to assist women with unintended pregnancies, or to assist with contraceptives and good information.

I think the gun issue is not what you make of it. There are a good many liberals who are pro-gun rights. Many would want some regulation, but few want to take all your guns away. (Why, btw, do you focus only on liberal women? What is it about them that bothers you the most?)

Where in my post do you find me squelching free speech?

And btw, taxes are how civilizations build communities. Voting against taxes simply because they are taxes is irrational. Why do conservatives not want to build sewer systems, municipal water, police, sidewalks and roads, hospitals, schools, etc? What do you think taxes are for? Where in the Bible is it written that you should not pay taxes and remove connections to anyone who doesn't attend your church?

volfan007 said...

no issues with women. they are just the liberals that came to mind. also, the govt. has enough money. i already pay extremely too much taxes. i am being taxed to death. thus, i vote against anyone who talks of raising taxes. or, if they raise taxes...i store it away for the next election and vote accordingly.

and, the people i hear talking of restricting free speech and freedome of religion the most are the liberal crowd.


Streak said...

government has enough money, eh? And you are being taxed to death?

I don't believe either of those things. I think that is a self-centered viewpoint that says "i don't want to contribute to the welfare of others."

If that were really true, then you would pay the actual cost of everything you use--roads, public services, etc. You don't think the University of Tennessee doesn't receive government money, do you?

Give me examples of liberals restricting free speech or stop saying stuff like that. I can give you numerous examples of conservatives taking actions that reduce our freedom. The Patriot act is just example one.

And who wants to restrict freedom of religion? I will tell you who. People like Jerry Falwell, and D. James Kennedy. Those are the people who want to restrict the rights of non-Christians. I know of no one who wants to restrict Christian freedoms. That is the biggest urban myth that fuels the religious right. Those and the anti-women sentiments that makes Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton evil shrews.

Volfan, you need to watch your news sources. Fox is not real news.

P.M. Prescott said...

I wish more politicians would stand up to the moral mafia and use these words as a manifesto.

DoorFrame said...

Goldwater was right back then and he's right for the future: Exhume Barry Goldwater for '08