December 16, 2006

Is this good news?

Melissa Rogers: "Today has been the most significant day in the history of the death penalty in America in many years." (Updated)

Don't get me wrong, any challenge to the death penalty is good in my book, but this appears to be just about the method of execution, and is not questioning the basic fairness or even morality of the system. We are the only Western Democracy to execute people. In my mind, this is just the first question we should be asking about this system.

16 comments:

volfan007 said...

streak,

you're against the death penalty too?

i hope you never have any family member brutally murdered by some low life scum who cares nothing for human life whatsoever. it might change your mind.

volfan007

Streak said...

volfan,

I don't think you really want to talk about this, but I have made my case on the death penalty over the years. Your argument is really not relevant to the death penalty as public policy.

I am absolutely sure that I would wish harm on someone like that. But that is not the issue at hand, unless you think that is the Christian response. Remember, volfan, Jesus was a victim of capital punishment.

But if you are serious, take a look at the racial and class bias in these cases, as well as the number of innocent who would have been executed absent DNA evidence. Once again, you have decided that they are all guilty--just as you did on the torture issue.

If you want to talk, keep it reasonable. Just about all of my friends have reiterated Tony's frustration with you on this blog.

Bootleg Blogger said...

Streak: Good distinction. The point of a just and fair society is that we don't make laws and punishment based on rage or revenge. The question isn't "what would you want to do to the person" but rather "what should you do". Later- BB
Later
BB

Streak said...

Exactly. And I wonder if Volfie rememebers that the Bible calls on us to love our enemies, even the "low life scum."

ubub said...

My position on the death penalty is the same as my position on torture: It is not about who they are, it is about who we are.

Also, I also hope that none of you have any family member brutally murdered, whether by lowlife scum or anyone else.

Streak said...

Well said, ubub. Well said.

volfan007 said...

first degree murderers need to die....for justice sake as well as for some sort of closure for the victims family.

from a theological viewpoint, capital punishment was ok'd by God in the ot. and, one day, sinners will burn in hell forever. so, i'd say that God was for it.

volfan007

Bootleg Blogger said...

ubub-
"It is not about who they are, it is about who we are." Excellent way to put it.

Anyone who honestly, comprehensively reads the old testament will see no reasonable modern person takes the old testament law literally in their daily lives. Everyone takes a VERY selective reading. Sharia law such as what is in place in Saudi Arabia and was in place under the Taliban are not very dissimilar from the Levitical law. Unfortunately the parts about capital punishment are often advocated eagerly by fundamentalists of any religion rather than approached carefully with fear and trembling at the very idea of taking another life.
Later- BB

Streak said...

Wow, Volfan, you make a shitty Christian, you know that? In fact, this is one of my big beefs, dipping into the OT when it is handy. And no need to worry about loving your enemy--it isn't in the OT and I am sure Jesus didn't mean that anyway.

Closure is a big word for someone from the stills of tennessee, too bad it doesn't actually work that way. You need to go back to UT Martin and maybe take a few more psych classes. When a person's mental health is dependent on the state taking someone and killing them--that isn't mental health.

Justice can happen with a prison sentence. The public is safe, the murderer loses his freedom, and if we all screwed up, there is a way to atone. Oh, and again, you ignore the possibility of innocence.

and why don't I listen to all my friends who tell me that Tony is right--you are a caricature of a fundy bible thumper and possibly a troll. Why do I bother to put together cogent arguments for someone who proof texts the bible to justify your world view?

volfan007 said...

christians dont live by the ot. we live by the nt. but, we can still learn things about God and the way He feels about things from the ot. that was my point. God was certainly ok with the death penality in the ot. and, one day, He will judge lost sinners and cast them into hell forever.

thus, from a theological viewpoint, i'd say it's ok with God.

as for closure for the family...well, why dont you ask the family of a child that was kidnapped, raped, and murdered by some scum of a human being if the death penality would not be some sort of closure.


streak,

i wonder if you know what a real christian is supposed to be like. it seems to me tha maybe you grew up in one of those liberal churches that never really preached the bible. you know, where the preacher gets up and preaches a nice, soft, little sermonette that wont offend anyone. dont base what you know of christianity on those soft, warm, fuzzy, God is a great big grandfather in the sky who resembles santa claus type of churches. thats not real christianity.

volfan007

Streak said...

"We live by the ot," but we will use the OT when it justifys our bloodlust, or our homophobia, or our need to subjugate women.

Glad, btw, that you don't mind speaking for God. Some readers of the Bible consider that blasphemy. And thanks again for reading so carefully. Perhaps I need to accuse you of being more like an abortion clinic bomber in every comment. I am sure those families would want the death penalty--that was in my first comment--but that doesn't make it right nor does it constitute the mythical closure.

As for my upbringing, perhaps you should stick to the things you know--like the hills of tennessee or why you like the state killing scum. You know nothing about me or my upbringing. I say again, you must be the shittiest pastor I have ever met. You just wrote that last paragraph to provoke me--just like Jesus would do, I guess.

I know a lot of real Christians. None of them are passive aggressive, bloodthirsty idiots.

Wasp Jerky said...

but, we can still learn things about God and the way He feels about things from the ot. that was my point.

Well, given that God required Israel to pay 23.3 percent of their earnings in taxes every year, and that 3.3 percent of that went to the poor, not to mention the year of jubilee, we can see that God also seems to favor high taxes and welfare.

volfan007 said...

over half of our income goes to the govt. now....way more than what God required for ot israel. plus, we christians give at least 10% to our church. so, you do the math. we give way more than the ot requirements.

volfan007

Streak said...

Hmm. Volfan is an idiot on the taxes. I doubt very much that he pays over half his income in Tennessee--unless it is in sales taxes. And even then.

I am calling bullshit on this one.

volfan007 said...

if you add all the taxes we pay...income taxes..sales taxes...gas taxes....license plates...property taxes, etc...then we pay 50% of our income to taxes. there are other studies that show that we work til april, or may, for taxes.


look it up.

volfan007

Streak said...

Again, Bullshit!

Thank god your masters degree wasn't in math. If you work till April that leaves more than half the year left, right?

Oh, I keep forgetting who I am arguing with. someone who ignores inconvenient facts.