Yesterday, SOF and I went to our favorite little guitar shop.
So we are shopping while these two Oklahoma residents are discussing football. I engage, noting that one of them is wearing an Oklahoma State shirt, and try to keep my vocabulary short and simple. (Just a joke). I mention that OSU pulled out their bowl game. All nice and polite.
Well, our Oklahoma resident decided to talk about Saddam's demise, saying that he had tuned in to see if they had "stretched his neck yet." We just ignored as much as we could and got out of the store as quickly as possible. The simplistic "good v. evil" that Bush and his people have sold us is ultimately hard to sustain. True, Saddam was evil. But it is much harder to find the good in this story. Iraq is a catastrophe, and the future is grim. Saddam's execution will actually lead (and has led) to more violence in the short term. It is hard to imagine that will change anytime soon.
Thinking about it later, there are many things about our music store experience that bothered me. I have no doubt that Saddam was just as bad as people said. I have no doubt that if anyone deserved this ending, he does. But people enjoying this bothers me. It bothers me when trolls and others smugly talk about ending life--about executing "scum" or whatever. There is a bloodthirsty side to the pro-death penalty side that really bothers me--especially when it comes from religious people. I imagine there were many who enjoyed Jesus' crucifixion.
Those two would do the same if the execution was for a convenience store robber as they did for a genocidal tyrant. That doesn't seem right. If we are going to execute people, we shouldn't enjoy it.
One of the problems with this approach is the levels of separation between killing and culpability. Of course, it is very simple to assign guilt to the robber who pulls the trigger--and of course they are guilty. Likewise, deciding that Saddam is a genocidal maniac is quite simple as well. But they aren't the only people who kill. Many, many people make decisions that lead to destruction, but their complicity is less direct. It isn't less destructive, just less simple.
The death penalty, however, is a simplistic response to a complex world. It doesn't deter crime, nor does it provide closure. It simply continues the killing to show that we think killing is wrong. Sigh.
11 comments:
one aspect about the death penalty.....the murderer will murder no more. he wont harm anyone else....even if it doesnt deter one criminal...although i believe it does deter many people from doing it.
also, i for one am never happy that someone was killed. i believe i said that it saddened me, and what made me the saddest is that he went into eternity without Christ. but, we have a saying down here in the south.....some people need killin'. saddam needed killin'.
volfan007
Oh yeah, the South is so impressive. Fought a war to defend slavery, and they have given us such cultural highlights as, "some people need killin."
Sigh.
after reading streak's sigh, i thought maybe i needed to translate the southern saying...."some people need killin'."
it means that some people need to be killed. they deserve it. they are so bad...so mean...so depraved...that they need to be killed for the good of everyone else. they need killin'.
now, is there something wrong with that statement?
volfan007
Oh yeah, that is much better!
Sigh.
Just like Jesus would do, right? I know that Tony and others are from the South, but come on! What kind of culture is this?
streak,
if you read the bible you will see that the Lord is not against capital punishment. in fact, He's all for it.
sorry you dont like the south. but, we love it down here.
volfan007
Of course you would say that because you read the Bible the same way you read any of our posts or comments--selectively. (You can look that up later)
For you, the Bible just reinforces what you already think. You are pro-capitalist, jingoistic about your country, and anti-gay. Hmm, of course, the Bible will support all of those ideas unless you actually take a look at what Jesus stood for. Of course, your Southern ancestors used the very same Bible to justify slavery--because the Bible doesn't have a problem with slavery either now does it.
Yep, the Bible can be proof-texted into just about any position. Those old "eye for an eye" passages are wonderfully conveninent when you need some kind of justification for your bloodlust. Of course, it is highly inconvenient when Jesus challenges you to love your enemies and forgive those who owe you. But of course, he didn't really mean that, did he? Nope, I am sure he meant that rich people are preferable, capital punishment is not barbaric at all, and instead of loving our enemies, we should hate them. Or perhaps, you follow Fat Boy Falwell and say that you support "killing them in the name of the Lord," or some such nonsense.
What really bothers me about this and I cannot shake it is the fact that Mr. President was asleep at the time of the execution. We unilaterally went in, deposed his regime, removed the dictator, and yet--our own president--the man singlehandedly responsible for this invasion--did not have the decency to stay awake to witness the execution. It must be nice to be that confident in yourself; even at 36%.
sigh
volfan007
Tony, I am going to disagree. Not to defend Bush, because his actions during this war have been infefensible, but had he watched or monitored the execution, it would have confirmed that this was personal. That's what a lot of people think anyway, that this was Bush taking Saddam out for revenge.
Still, in his White House study, the president keeps a memento -- the pistol taken from Hussein when he was captured. If there ever was a duel, it is now over.
Personally, I disagree. I think others were able to convince Bush to invade because he wanted to top his father.
And to be fair, he might have not been awake, because this President sleeps more than any. He is not terribly engaged in the work of the office. And, of course, I fault him for creating this chaos.
BTW, Baghdad Burning is calling the execution a lynching, and notes that it occurred during a religious holiday:
It's official. Maliki and his people are psychopaths. This really is a new low. It's outrageous- an execution during Eid. Muslims all over the world (with the exception of Iran) are outraged. Eid is a time of peace, of putting aside quarrels and anger- at least for the duration of Eid.
This does not bode well for the coming year. No one imagined the madmen would actually do it during a religious holiday. It is religiously unacceptable and before, it was constitutionally illegal. We thought we'd at least get a few days of peace and some time to enjoy the Eid holiday, which coincides with the New Year this year. We've spent the first two days of a holy holiday watching bits and pieces of a sordid lynching.
America the savior… After nearly four years and Bush's biggest achievement in Iraq has been a lynching. Bravo Americans.
Streak,
Oh, man...you're right. So right. I let my aggravation with Bush get in the way and I didn't think it through completely.
Thanks for shaking me out of the complacency.
The Baghdad Burning link is no good...something in cutting and pasting, I'm sure.
America the savior… After nearly four years and Bush's biggest achievement in Iraq has been a lynching. Bravo Americans.
(head hanging in shame)
Sorry about the link. Maybe this will work.
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