February 15, 2008

where have we heard this before?

The Connecticut Post Online - Lieberman says some waterboarding OK: "'We are at war,' Lieberman said. 'I know enough from public statements made by Osama bin Laden and others as well as classified information I see to know the terrorists are actively planning, plotting to attack us again. I want our government to be able to gather information again within both the law and Geneva Convention.'"

And someone said this:
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Of course, that translation leaves out the common addendum suggested by some of our evangelical friends:
Unless your enemies are really bad. Then be as evil to them as you think they are to you. Verily.


Ellito Lake said...

We were talking about this at home yesterday. Raised Christian, I will vote Democratic, and am against religion running the country, but would be thoroughly impressed if the religion mongering candidates on the right would say, "Torture is immoral, in following Jesus Christ I must reject torture as it is against God's will".

Fat chance (on them coming out against it on moral grounds), but I would be impressed. It would toe with how I was raised, and with what I was raised to believe in. God is not in the business of sanctioning torture.

Streak said...

That is a good way of putting it. I too want to respect the right for having moral standards and principles. This last 7 years has undermined that belief, and the torture stuff is the kicker. Our last troll was perfect. He defends torture, then bashes non-christians. Whatever we think about the faith, it challenges us to care about people outside our own experience, and in a very direct way, those who we consider enemies. I freely admit to not being very good at that, but at least I know it is valuable. The right seems to think that those verses were not meant to be taken literally.

I don't get that.

ubub said...

Jesus Christ! Who IS that liberal author anyway? I bet he just wants us all to invite our enemies to BBQs while we're at it. In fact, I am certain of it because like all of us he is a moral relativist who can't possibly mean these absurd things in any sort of unconditional way.

steves said...

Just a reminder that not all of us on the right are torture cheerleaders. There are also plenty of Christians that are against torture, but they just aren't as vocal as the supporters.

leighton said...

I don't know whether it's that anti-torture Christians are less vocal, so much as the ones who think it's fine and dandy get all the media attention. My experience may not be representative, but every Christian I know personally is vehemently against torture. Many of them are socially liberal, but I most either self-identify as conservative or middle of the road. By and large, they feel they have better things to do with their finances and efforts than building a political power base to use as a platform to attract attention as the religious right has.

But this is just the tiny sample of people I happen to know. It could well be that there are other things going on too.

steves said...

Leighton, I believe you are correct. More rational, moderate speakers seldom get the press of Pat Robertson, but I am sure the katter generates more buzz and attention.

Tony said...

Just a reminder that not all of us on the right are torture cheerleaders.

Here, here!!